We are reading Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Churches book and talking about the chapters after we read them individually. I find this a very intriguing continuum of the Emerging beliefs from the most conservative on the right to the most liberal on the left. Each author gives their perspective and then each other author gives their perspective on each other. There is a respectful feel in their comments even though there are some fireworks. I look forward to giving my perspectives on what the authors are saying. I am still learning and am willing and eager to engage in conversation with you even if it takes a long time. And in the world of blogging, it does take a long time. What a wonderful adventure it will be. I am what I am becoming and you are not complete either, II Corinthians 3:18 makes sure of it.
Here are some highlights from our discussion today…
We started seeking to find a definition of the Emerging Church. Some have said it is like nailing Jell-o to the wall, trying to define this thing called the Emerging Church. I believe there is a difference between the Emerging Church and the Emergent Movement. It was said and I believe this that a huge distinction of the Emerging Church has much to do with how to respond to our current Post-Modern culture. How we “DO” theology and “LIVE” out theology is at the crux of the issue. Everyone on our staff wants to be thoroughly Biblical, thoroughly Truth oriented. Although some are more wary than others on nailing down for certain how they know what they know. However, all want to maintain an absolute truth. I guess part of the conversation is not just believing what my parents believed because they believed it without knowing why. I made this comment, “I would rather someone be hungry for seeking why they believe what they believe in a shaky and seeking way rather than blindly believe what someone tells them what to believe even if it is truth.” There will be no growth, no maturity, no passion and certainly no evangelism.
I want to know God. I want to know truth. How do we get to the truth of who God is? I hope you have an answer to this question. But more than that, I hope you are not just listening to someone on what they believe and believe them blindly. First step for me is to look at events. Then look at what was said about those events. I also think about who Jesus is. I tend to not care about what you believe about Jesus. He said some things and did some things. Many of His words and His works are written down for us. We don’t have all the truth about who He is. Only God knows all there is to know about Jesus. But what we do know is certainly sufficient for our life and faith. So Jesus made some claims about Himself and we know what those claims are by how people heard Him. There are at least two instances, if not more, that Jesus made the claim of being God and the reason why I know He claimed that was because those listening picked up rocks in order to stone Him (John 8:57-58 and John 10:28-31).
My friend Jonathan Tyner has some clever things to say. I would say that he is one that is fully against anything Emerging. His last sentence is a doozy…go here for a well thought out Note on Facebook.
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Hey Greg! Interesting post. My roommate (who is a pastor at an Emerging church here in Austin) read it as well. I like this comment you made: “I would rather someone be hungry for seeking why they believe what they believe in a shaky and seeking way rather than blindly believe what someone tells them what to believe even if it is truth.”
I read Jonathan’s post and did not find it particularly well thought out or constructive. His self-satisfied attitude pretty much encapsulates everything that I find distasteful about more traditional churches. I’m not saying that I have a problem with everyone who attends those churches. But I think that when the focus becomes ‘absolute truth’, it’s too easy to fall into an “us vs. them” mentality and to focus on being *right* on nitpicky doctrinal issues instead of being Christlike. I find it interesting that absolute truth was never mentioned by Jesus or Paul, the two biggest players in the New Testament. This isn’t an attack on Jonathan but after reading his post on Facebook and only seeing comments commending him for his superior intellect, I felt I needed to express my dislike for the way he handled his argument against tenets of the Emergent church. He may (or may not) have some valid points, but I find it difficult to hold constructive conversation with people who are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are right.
This attitude is something that I’ve really tried to steer away from, and in the Emergent church, I’ve found other people with similar values who are trying to seek truth, and seek God, because we value them in and of themselves, instead of using them as a trophy to display our ‘rightness.’
I am glad you are feeling the rub. I am convinced there is a need to work this out. I am very unwilling to change my view of Scripture, of God, of Jesus. I really believe that he is the only way, like very exclusively dogmatic, however, I am seeking to be humble in my tone. I feel the rub in a major way. I really appreciate the emerging church conversation because of the methodology it brings to the table. I am somewhat hesitant with the EMERGENT organization itself…I am still seeking the Truth. I don’t know all there is to know only God does, but I can say emphatically that the tomb was empty. I can say what Jesus said because of the response of the hearers that He said he was God! communicating that today is the key…thanks for your comments Blythe. I would love to connect more with you and your roommate in any ways I can.
Wow Blythe, your last statement was right on target to how SO MANY of your generation and older see the fundamentalist churches!
In many ways I am seeing the emerging theological conversations returning Truth to God, and taking the seat of humility in presenting the truth that we understand.
Of course you find these type of people all over the place too…not just in emerging churches.
And of course you find those in the emerging churches who don’t allow the Spirit of God to rule over them when they differ with others too.
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